Comments on: Does truth exist? http://www.perplexicon.net/2008/07/does-truth-exist/ Contrary to what you might think, a blog about what's contrary to what you might think. Sat, 04 Sep 2010 13:41:31 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: The Infinite Regress of Illusions | Perplexicon http://www.perplexicon.net/2008/07/does-truth-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-73 The Infinite Regress of Illusions | Perplexicon Tue, 30 Sep 2008 21:09:09 +0000 http://mrcontrarian.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-73 [...] wrote in a previous post (Does Truth Exist?) that we assume that truth exists in all our speech and thoughts, and that it would be impossible [...] [...] wrote in a previous post (Does Truth Exist?) that we assume that truth exists in all our speech and thoughts, and that it would be impossible [...]

]]> By: David Michael http://www.perplexicon.net/2008/07/does-truth-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-27 David Michael Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:54:03 +0000 http://mrcontrarian.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-27 But if there's only perceived truth, by what standards can you call it true? Just because there are lunatics like those of the Flat Earth Society who won't be convinced by your arguments, doesn't mean there's no such thing as truth. It's true that the earth is round, it's just that they don't believe it. Let's put it this way: if the overwhelming amount of evidence showing that the earth is round is not enough to convince them, then the same should apply to everything else, such as their existence and the facts of their daily lives. If they were to take their attitude to its logical conclusion, they just wouldn't be able to live. But if there’s only perceived truth, by what standards can you call it true? Just because there are lunatics like those of the Flat Earth Society who won’t be convinced by your arguments, doesn’t mean there’s no such thing as truth. It’s true that the earth is round, it’s just that they don’t believe it. Let’s put it this way: if the overwhelming amount of evidence showing that the earth is round is not enough to convince them, then the same should apply to everything else, such as their existence and the facts of their daily lives. If they were to take their attitude to its logical conclusion, they just wouldn’t be able to live.

]]> By: Ben http://www.perplexicon.net/2008/07/does-truth-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-26 Ben Thu, 18 Sep 2008 05:55:29 +0000 http://mrcontrarian.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-26 Ok see, but I would argue that absolute truth doesn't exist because you can't prove anything completely. Try arguing with the Flat Earth Society and you'll see what I mean. On the other hand, perceived truth does exist and perceptions are considered reality by those who own them. The only middle ground is found if one recognises that nothing they believe is actually truth because it cannot be proven, and is therefore only perceived truth, does that make sense? Ok see, but I would argue that absolute truth doesn’t exist because you can’t prove anything completely. Try arguing with the Flat Earth Society and you’ll see what I mean. On the other hand, perceived truth does exist and perceptions are considered reality by those who own them.
The only middle ground is found if one recognises that nothing they believe is actually truth because it cannot be proven, and is therefore only perceived truth, does that make sense?

]]> By: David Michael http://www.perplexicon.net/2008/07/does-truth-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-24 David Michael Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:14:00 +0000 http://mrcontrarian.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-24 The belief in truth is not necessarily a conscious thing, so I guess it might strictly speaking be wrong to call it a belief. It's more of an assumption. Furthermore, this assumption is pretty natural -- perhaps in evolutionary terms it's there for purposes of survival. Let's put it this way: I'm assuming your shih-tzu doesn't have the sophistication to have the thought "truth does not exist". Given that she doesn't, the only way she can believe she knows the whereabouts of her toys, without absurdity, is to assume that truth exists (unconsciously, of course). If she was constituted to think that truth doesn't exist, she could never consistently believe she knew the whereabouts of her toys. If she could think to such a degree, she would think, "I believe that they are in a basket by the side door, but truth doesn't exist, so it's impossible to know." Since she presumably can't think that thought, I cannot see any other way she can believe she knows the whereabouts of her toys without at least being constituted to assume that truth exists. The belief in truth is not necessarily a conscious thing, so I guess it might strictly speaking be wrong to call it a belief. It’s more of an assumption. Furthermore, this assumption is pretty natural — perhaps in evolutionary terms it’s there for purposes of survival. Let’s put it this way: I’m assuming your shih-tzu doesn’t have the sophistication to have the thought “truth does not exist”. Given that she doesn’t, the only way she can believe she knows the whereabouts of her toys, without absurdity, is to assume that truth exists (unconsciously, of course). If she was constituted to think that truth doesn’t exist, she could never consistently believe she knew the whereabouts of her toys. If she could think to such a degree, she would think, “I believe that they are in a basket by the side door, but truth doesn’t exist, so it’s impossible to know.” Since she presumably can’t think that thought, I cannot see any other way she can believe she knows the whereabouts of her toys without at least being constituted to assume that truth exists.

]]> By: MvL http://www.perplexicon.net/2008/07/does-truth-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-23 MvL Thu, 31 Jul 2008 02:56:25 +0000 http://mrcontrarian.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-23 so, I don't think it's so much that the twig or shih-tzu needs to believe that truth exists. I've given two examples where it's pretty clear that these creatures may not have this belief. "We must concede that truth exists if we are to do or think anything" is pretty controversial without further argumentation (and, I still think this focus on the 'subject' is a part of the problem. Why must one concede anything about truth in order to have thoughts or beliefs about entirely unrelated things?) so, I don’t think it’s so much that the twig or shih-tzu needs to believe that truth exists. I’ve given two examples where it’s pretty clear that these creatures may not have this belief. “We must concede that truth exists if we are to do or think anything” is pretty controversial without further argumentation (and, I still think this focus on the ‘subject’ is a part of the problem. Why must one concede anything about truth in order to have thoughts or beliefs about entirely unrelated things?)

]]> By: MvL http://www.perplexicon.net/2008/07/does-truth-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-22 MvL Thu, 31 Jul 2008 02:49:33 +0000 http://mrcontrarian.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-22 Well then, you have even more explaining to do. My shih-tzu clearly believes that her toys are in a basket by the side door, without (likely) having any thoughts, let alone beliefs, about truth or falsehood. Well then, you have even more explaining to do. My shih-tzu clearly believes that her toys are in a basket by the side door, without (likely) having any thoughts, let alone beliefs, about truth or falsehood.

]]> By: John http://www.perplexicon.net/2008/07/does-truth-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-21 John Wed, 30 Jul 2008 07:03:01 +0000 http://mrcontrarian.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-21 Please find three related references which insist that Truth with a capital T does exist---and that all of the usual philosophical exercises are an attempt to deal with the seeming absence of this Truth. 1. http://global.adidam.org/books/eleutherios.html 2. http://www.dabase.org/truthfrl.htm 3. http://www.adidabiennale.org/curation/index.htm Please find three related references which insist that Truth with a capital T does exist—and that all of the usual philosophical exercises are an attempt to deal with the seeming absence of this Truth.

1. http://global.adidam.org/books/eleutherios.html

2. http://www.dabase.org/truthfrl.htm

3. http://www.adidabiennale.org/curation/index.htm

]]> By: Alrenous http://www.perplexicon.net/2008/07/does-truth-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-20 Alrenous Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:44:15 +0000 http://mrcontrarian.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-20 Ah, I see. Right. Ah, I see. Right.

]]> By: David Michael http://www.perplexicon.net/2008/07/does-truth-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-19 David Michael Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:09:04 +0000 http://mrcontrarian.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-19 Yes, but what I meant was that, given that our capacity for logic is pretty much universal, it may be inextricably tied in with the way beliefs are formed, also pretty much universal. Yes, but what I meant was that, given that our capacity for logic is pretty much universal, it may be inextricably tied in with the way beliefs are formed, also pretty much universal.

]]> By: Alrenous http://www.perplexicon.net/2008/07/does-truth-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-18 Alrenous Tue, 29 Jul 2008 06:21:14 +0000 http://mrcontrarian.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-18 Logic exists independently of our capacity for it. We are merely accessing it through genetics. Logic exists independently of our capacity for it.

We are merely accessing it through genetics.

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