Comments on: Race and IQ – off limits? http://www.perplexicon.net/2009/04/race-and-iq-off-limits/ Contrary to what you might think, a blog about what's contrary to what you might think. Sat, 04 Sep 2010 13:41:31 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Katy http://www.perplexicon.net/2009/04/race-and-iq-off-limits/comment-page-1/#comment-1326 Katy Sun, 12 Jul 2009 03:15:08 +0000 http://www.perplexicon.net/?p=186#comment-1326 You mention "larger goals," without citing any possibilities. Name one. I can't think of any, and I assume if you could, you would have named them. What is the purpose of IQ anyway? My IQ is 150. Other than giving me some self-confidence, what good does it do me? I tell no one. The number never got me a job. And I doubt the validity of the test in any case. I agree with Paul Howell's comment above in its entirety. You mention “larger goals,” without citing any possibilities. Name one. I can’t think of any, and I assume if you could, you would have named them.
What is the purpose of IQ anyway? My IQ is 150. Other than giving me some self-confidence, what good does it do me? I tell no one. The number never got me a job. And I doubt the validity of the test in any case.
I agree with Paul Howell’s comment above in its entirety.

]]> By: Paul Howell http://www.perplexicon.net/2009/04/race-and-iq-off-limits/comment-page-1/#comment-1302 Paul Howell Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:54:55 +0000 http://www.perplexicon.net/?p=186#comment-1302 You practically ignore (while citing him) that Rose has a powerful argument against "race-based" studies... race is not biologically definable to the extent necessary for clear, reproducible studies of intellect measures. Biogeographic ancestory, you suggest? I scoff. As defined by whom, the subjects themselves (who may not know, or be misinformed, or inclined to misreport this information) or by some other measure? Or do you anticipate that there may be some clearly definable categories of biogeographical ancestry that will be somehow both meaningful for such studies and statistically separable? What if my background includes several flavors of European Caucasians plus both Native Americans and African Americans? Now what's my biogeographic ancestry? The entire field is suspect for these reasons... reasons that Cici and Williams totally ignore in their arguments. They have no mention of meaningful biological means of determining race for their proposed studies, nor mention of alternative measures. They simply (in this article) ignore that race isn't something you can simply put a check next to on a survey and move forward in any kind of meaningful way. It's not to me (as a scientist) a question of morality, it's a question of feasibility. These studies are practically meaningless as far as the title of this blog post is concerned -- we simply haven't the means at this time to accurately posit any conclusions regarding the relationship between "race" and "IQ". Will we someday? Perhaps. Should government funding be used for such studies? Only if someone comes up with a grant proposal that adequately addresses the shortcomings of all such studies to date, and comes up with a new approach that could provide us with something meaningful. I'm not holding my breath for that to happen. Nor do I think it's an important science question for the very reasons that make race so ill-defined in the first place. If we can't even define who belongs to what race, what good will it do us to know that there is some statistical difference between peoples of those races? And don't get me started on measures of intellect that are actually meaningful across all styles of learning, all manners of creativity, socio-economic background, and any range of cultural and societal upbringing. Please. This topic of Race vs. IQ is a sleeping dog, and one with a cultural bite. I say leave it alone. And certainly don't poke it with a stick. You practically ignore (while citing him) that Rose has a powerful argument against “race-based” studies… race is not biologically definable to the extent necessary for clear, reproducible studies of intellect measures. Biogeographic ancestory, you suggest? I scoff. As defined by whom, the subjects themselves (who may not know, or be misinformed, or inclined to misreport this information) or by some other measure? Or do you anticipate that there may be some clearly definable categories of biogeographical ancestry that will be somehow both meaningful for such studies and statistically separable? What if my background includes several flavors of European Caucasians plus both Native Americans and African Americans? Now what’s my biogeographic ancestry?

The entire field is suspect for these reasons… reasons that Cici and Williams totally ignore in their arguments. They have no mention of meaningful biological means of determining race for their proposed studies, nor mention of alternative measures. They simply (in this article) ignore that race isn’t something you can simply put a check next to on a survey and move forward in any kind of meaningful way. It’s not to me (as a scientist) a question of morality, it’s a question of feasibility. These studies are practically meaningless as far as the title of this blog post is concerned — we simply haven’t the means at this time to accurately posit any conclusions regarding the relationship between “race” and “IQ”. Will we someday? Perhaps. Should government funding be used for such studies? Only if someone comes up with a grant proposal that adequately addresses the shortcomings of all such studies to date, and comes up with a new approach that could provide us with something meaningful. I’m not holding my breath for that to happen. Nor do I think it’s an important science question for the very reasons that make race so ill-defined in the first place. If we can’t even define who belongs to what race, what good will it do us to know that there is some statistical difference between peoples of those races? And don’t get me started on measures of intellect that are actually meaningful across all styles of learning, all manners of creativity, socio-economic background, and any range of cultural and societal upbringing. Please.

This topic of Race vs. IQ is a sleeping dog, and one with a cultural bite. I say leave it alone. And certainly don’t poke it with a stick.

]]> By: Dodgeblogium » Gale of a CoTV http://www.perplexicon.net/2009/04/race-and-iq-off-limits/comment-page-1/#comment-1206 Dodgeblogium » Gale of a CoTV Thu, 07 May 2009 15:17:49 +0000 http://www.perplexicon.net/?p=186#comment-1206 [...] Michael presents Race and IQ - off limits? posted at Perplexicon, saying, “An article about whether the relationship between race and IQ [...] [...] Michael presents Race and IQ – off limits? posted at Perplexicon, saying, “An article about whether the relationship between race and IQ [...]

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