Comments on: Morality is either relative or doesn’t come from God http://www.perplexicon.net/2010/05/morality-is-either-relative-or-doesnt-come-from-god/ Contrary to what you might think, a blog about what's contrary to what you might think. Mon, 12 Dec 2011 01:53:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: John http://www.perplexicon.net/2010/05/morality-is-either-relative-or-doesnt-come-from-god/comment-page-1/#comment-3191 John Fri, 28 May 2010 06:51:52 +0000 http://www.perplexicon.net/?p=357#comment-3191 Please check out this reference which points out that morality comes from the human heart when it is established in the intrinsic state of Prior Unity. http://www.dabase.org/p9rightness.htm Plus related references. http://www.fearnomorezoo.org/literature/observe_learn.php http://www.adidam.org/teaching/aletheon/truth-life.aspx Please check out this reference which points out that morality comes from the human heart when it is established in the intrinsic state of Prior Unity.

http://www.dabase.org/p9rightness.htm

Plus related references.

http://www.fearnomorezoo.org/literature/observe_learn.php

http://www.adidam.org/teaching/aletheon/truth-life.aspx

]]> By: David Michael http://www.perplexicon.net/2010/05/morality-is-either-relative-or-doesnt-come-from-god/comment-page-1/#comment-3008 David Michael Sun, 02 May 2010 19:18:04 +0000 http://www.perplexicon.net/?p=357#comment-3008 The problem is that so many theists passionately believe that to be an atheist means you have no place from which to derive moral principles, and also that morality is absolute. In other words, for these theists, killing is never, ever justified, and this law comes from God. But if God can change his mind about these things, then what is absolutely wrong one minute is not so the next, and therefore there is no absolute morality. The most a theist can say is that morality is objective (rather than absolute), and that there is some set of laws governing its contingency on the will of God. So there is no contradiction in believing that morality is whatever God makes it, as long as you admit that it cannot then be absolute (unless God cannot, by some definition of what God is, change it -- in which case why invoke God?). But there is a larger point. If one believes that morality comes from God and that God intervenes in the world, then one must either accept that God does a lot of bad things, or conclude that there is some great plan behind it. But the latter option leads to what amounts to a passive evil, whereby one's own intellectual laziness leads to thinking little of the suffering of others. The problem is that so many theists passionately believe that to be an atheist means you have no place from which to derive moral principles, and also that morality is absolute. In other words, for these theists, killing is never, ever justified, and this law comes from God. But if God can change his mind about these things, then what is absolutely wrong one minute is not so the next, and therefore there is no absolute morality. The most a theist can say is that morality is objective (rather than absolute), and that there is some set of laws governing its contingency on the will of God. So there is no contradiction in believing that morality is whatever God makes it, as long as you admit that it cannot then be absolute (unless God cannot, by some definition of what God is, change it — in which case why invoke God?).

But there is a larger point. If one believes that morality comes from God and that God intervenes in the world, then one must either accept that God does a lot of bad things, or conclude that there is some great plan behind it. But the latter option leads to what amounts to a passive evil, whereby one’s own intellectual laziness leads to thinking little of the suffering of others.

]]> By: Colin http://www.perplexicon.net/2010/05/morality-is-either-relative-or-doesnt-come-from-god/comment-page-1/#comment-3006 Colin Sun, 02 May 2010 15:20:56 +0000 http://www.perplexicon.net/?p=357#comment-3006 I'm not sure I follow all of this, but I think the point is interesting. You may be well acquainted with this, but in case not, the line of argument you are advancing is commonly taken to have its (written) origin in Plato's dialogue Euthyphro. One thing I would like to better understand is why you think conceding the apologistic view, or as you put it "taking God at his word" entails that morality is relative. In one sense, yes: it entails that morality is relative-to-what-God-commands. But that sort of relativity is already inherent in the concept of an omnipotent and intelligent creator. God is conceived as someone who can make the world behave however he wants, and there is no particular reason to expect his wants to match our preconceptions about how the world should be. In other words, relativity-to-what-God-commands is not going to seem like a surprising consequence to a sincere theist -- at least not if they are honest. Of course it seems surprising to many of us that it *could* even *possibly* be good to kill someone (e.g. because God says so). But is there anything deeper to this than a surprise? You say at the outset of your post that the theistic view is contradictory, but so far it just strikes me as hard to believe. Is there a literal contradiction in believing that morality is 'whatever God makes it' or is it just a really strange view of things? I’m not sure I follow all of this, but I think the point is interesting. You may be well acquainted with this, but in case not, the line of argument you are advancing is commonly taken to have its (written) origin in Plato’s dialogue Euthyphro.

One thing I would like to better understand is why you think conceding the apologistic view, or as you put it “taking God at his word” entails that morality is relative. In one sense, yes: it entails that morality is relative-to-what-God-commands. But that sort of relativity is already inherent in the concept of an omnipotent and intelligent creator. God is conceived as someone who can make the world behave however he wants, and there is no particular reason to expect his wants to match our preconceptions about how the world should be. In other words, relativity-to-what-God-commands is not going to seem like a surprising consequence to a sincere theist — at least not if they are honest. Of course it seems surprising to many of us that it *could* even *possibly* be good to kill someone (e.g. because God says so). But is there anything deeper to this than a surprise? You say at the outset of your post that the theistic view is contradictory, but so far it just strikes me as hard to believe. Is there a literal contradiction in believing that morality is ‘whatever God makes it’ or is it just a really strange view of things?

]]>