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	<title>Comments for Perplexicon</title>
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	<link>http://www.perplexicon.net</link>
	<description>Contrary to what you might think, a blog about what&#039;s contrary to what you might think.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2011 01:53:36 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Is it possible to believe in false gods? by &#62;Believing in False Gods &#124; Claude Mariottini - Professor of Old Testament</title>
		<link>http://www.perplexicon.net/2009/08/is-it-possible-to-believe-in-false-gods/comment-page-1/#comment-9391</link>
		<dc:creator>&#62;Believing in False Gods &#124; Claude Mariottini - Professor of Old Testament</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2011 01:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perplexicon.net/?p=244#comment-9391</guid>
		<description>[...] Michael, is his blog, Perplixicon, asked a very interesting question: “Is it possible to believe in false gods? The answer to this [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Michael, is his blog, Perplixicon, asked a very interesting question: “Is it possible to believe in false gods? The answer to this [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Free will and deterministic predictions by Andrew Mahone</title>
		<link>http://www.perplexicon.net/2008/10/free-will-and-deterministic-predictions/comment-page-1/#comment-9184</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Mahone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Dec 2011 01:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perplexicon.net/?p=135#comment-9184</guid>
		<description>Wouldn&#039;t the prediction function, in a model that must necessarily include the predictor itself, be noncomputable? I&#039;m pretty sure an algorithm can&#039;t have absolute knowledge of it&#039;s final result as an intermediate value, and any attempt to consider all possible final results has the possibility of the algorithm running forever or only being able to report, if it&#039;s clever enough, that the result is indeterminate (I&#039;m not aware of any such theorem having been proven, but it feels correct and I think might follow fairly directly from the halting problem). I&#039;m not convinced the impossibility of the predictor, if I&#039;m right, kills determinism. That we lack a predictor is not the same thing as our actions being fundamentally unpredictable. The interesting thing is that evidence of determinism does not appear to impact the illusion of free will, and I&#039;m satisfied to exercise that illusion while strongly believing free will to be illusory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wouldn&#8217;t the prediction function, in a model that must necessarily include the predictor itself, be noncomputable? I&#8217;m pretty sure an algorithm can&#8217;t have absolute knowledge of it&#8217;s final result as an intermediate value, and any attempt to consider all possible final results has the possibility of the algorithm running forever or only being able to report, if it&#8217;s clever enough, that the result is indeterminate (I&#8217;m not aware of any such theorem having been proven, but it feels correct and I think might follow fairly directly from the halting problem). I&#8217;m not convinced the impossibility of the predictor, if I&#8217;m right, kills determinism. That we lack a predictor is not the same thing as our actions being fundamentally unpredictable. The interesting thing is that evidence of determinism does not appear to impact the illusion of free will, and I&#8217;m satisfied to exercise that illusion while strongly believing free will to be illusory.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The likelihood of a post-religious world by Where did spirituality/religion come from, and where is it going? - Tree of Souls - An Avatar Community Forum</title>
		<link>http://www.perplexicon.net/2010/01/the-likelihood-of-a-post-religious-world/comment-page-1/#comment-8141</link>
		<dc:creator>Where did spirituality/religion come from, and where is it going? - Tree of Souls - An Avatar Community Forum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2011 20:06:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perplexicon.net/?p=307#comment-8141</guid>
		<description>[...] permalink      The concept of spirituality and religion is just about as old as time. Some religions may have been designed in ancient times or modified in medieval times to intentionally console those stricken by poverty by convincing them that they would have all they wanted in another life, but religions and spirituality as a whole have existed long before organized civilizations. Where does it come from? And, as more and more people have better education in the modern age, what will happen to spirituality/religion?  Here&#039;s a nice article about the future of religion: The likelihood of a post-religious world &#124; Perplexicon [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] permalink      The concept of spirituality and religion is just about as old as time. Some religions may have been designed in ancient times or modified in medieval times to intentionally console those stricken by poverty by convincing them that they would have all they wanted in another life, but religions and spirituality as a whole have existed long before organized civilizations. Where does it come from? And, as more and more people have better education in the modern age, what will happen to spirituality/religion?  Here&#039;s a nice article about the future of religion: The likelihood of a post-religious world | Perplexicon [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Wikipedia and the future of knowledge by Kandice Mcmunn</title>
		<link>http://www.perplexicon.net/2009/05/wikipedia-and-the-future-of-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-7180</link>
		<dc:creator>Kandice Mcmunn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:40:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perplexicon.net/?p=193#comment-7180</guid>
		<description>i tried adding your post to my digg account as i liked it,but seems someone has already submitted this to digg,hence i just voted it. i found it very interesting because of your perception on the subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i tried adding your post to my digg account as i liked it,but seems someone has already submitted this to digg,hence i just voted it. i found it very interesting because of your perception on the subject.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Evolutionary moral pragmatism by David Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.perplexicon.net/2011/03/evolutionary-moral-pragmatism/comment-page-1/#comment-5643</link>
		<dc:creator>David Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2011 20:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perplexicon.net/?p=459#comment-5643</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll admit I wasn&#039;t 100% clear, but I certainly do know that our deepest instincts are rooted in the survival of our DNA (&quot;our aim is little more than the selfish aim of all genes&quot;). I think it&#039;s pretty safe to jump from that to saying that they serve the function of species survival, since gene survival/propagation = species survival. 

I am arguing that the &quot;moral emotions&quot; you list (empathy, guilt, righteous indignation, etc.) are not really in-built at all, but products of the society in question, though they do rely on certain fundamental instincts. (Of those you list, perhaps empathy is the only one that is really fundamental.) This view implies that cultural moral systems do not rely on the arbitrariness of evolution, but on the slightly less arbitrary factor of intelligence, which is the main shaper, other than our fundamental instincts, of culture. 

I agree that there is no &quot;should&quot; in science, and that one cannot go directly from an is to an ought. I admitted as much in the conclusion of the essay. But one can have rather too strong an allergic reaction to good advice based on observations of the world. It is not arrogant, nor is it misplaced, for an economist to tell a president that he should not print any more money lest the country undergo heavy inflation and ultimately collapse. The advice itself is not objective truth, but the arguments that show how A leads to Z are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll admit I wasn&#8217;t 100% clear, but I certainly do know that our deepest instincts are rooted in the survival of our DNA (&#8220;our aim is little more than the selfish aim of all genes&#8221;). I think it&#8217;s pretty safe to jump from that to saying that they serve the function of species survival, since gene survival/propagation = species survival. </p>
<p>I am arguing that the &#8220;moral emotions&#8221; you list (empathy, guilt, righteous indignation, etc.) are not really in-built at all, but products of the society in question, though they do rely on certain fundamental instincts. (Of those you list, perhaps empathy is the only one that is really fundamental.) This view implies that cultural moral systems do not rely on the arbitrariness of evolution, but on the slightly less arbitrary factor of intelligence, which is the main shaper, other than our fundamental instincts, of culture. </p>
<p>I agree that there is no &#8220;should&#8221; in science, and that one cannot go directly from an is to an ought. I admitted as much in the conclusion of the essay. But one can have rather too strong an allergic reaction to good advice based on observations of the world. It is not arrogant, nor is it misplaced, for an economist to tell a president that he should not print any more money lest the country undergo heavy inflation and ultimately collapse. The advice itself is not objective truth, but the arguments that show how A leads to Z are.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Evolutionary moral pragmatism by Mark Sloan</title>
		<link>http://www.perplexicon.net/2011/03/evolutionary-moral-pragmatism/comment-page-1/#comment-5632</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Sloan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2011 02:09:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perplexicon.net/?p=459#comment-5632</guid>
		<description>I think you are on a wild goose chase here, and you are not the first to take off on this particularly unpromising route.

To start, your first premise is false. 

Our deepest instincts are rooted in the survival of our personal DNA and the DNA we share with close relatives. Whether those instincts increase the chances of the survival of our species is irrelevant. These survival instincts include greed, desire to dominate others by violence, and other nasty instincts that have nothing to do with morality.

In the field of evolutionary morality, it is uncontroversial that our DNA based biology that produces our moral emotions like empathy, guilt, and righteous indignation exists as only ONE set of strategies to increase our inclusive reproductive fitness (survival of our DNA). Further, these emotions accomplish this feat by motivating behaviors that increase the reproductive fitness benefits of cooperation in groups.

It is also appears that virtually all past and present cultural moral standards (that advocate unselfish behaviors) are heuristics for increasing the benefits of cooperation in groups. However, the benefits of cooperation advocated by cultural moral standards can include emotional and material goods rewards, not just reproductive fitness benefits. 

There is no ‘should’ in science. Science only tells us what ‘is’ and science appears to tell us that cultural moral standards and biologically based moral emotions are cultural and biological heuristics for exploiting the benefits of cooperation in groups. If people decide they ‘should’ use that information for their benefit, that is up to them.

I suggest the biggest help you will ever get in understand morality is to understand winning game theory strategies in environments where synergistic benefits of cooperation are available. These environments necessarily include virtually all environments inhabited by intelligent beings, human or otherwise. Intelligence is not the enemy of morality, it is what makes morality possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you are on a wild goose chase here, and you are not the first to take off on this particularly unpromising route.</p>
<p>To start, your first premise is false. </p>
<p>Our deepest instincts are rooted in the survival of our personal DNA and the DNA we share with close relatives. Whether those instincts increase the chances of the survival of our species is irrelevant. These survival instincts include greed, desire to dominate others by violence, and other nasty instincts that have nothing to do with morality.</p>
<p>In the field of evolutionary morality, it is uncontroversial that our DNA based biology that produces our moral emotions like empathy, guilt, and righteous indignation exists as only ONE set of strategies to increase our inclusive reproductive fitness (survival of our DNA). Further, these emotions accomplish this feat by motivating behaviors that increase the reproductive fitness benefits of cooperation in groups.</p>
<p>It is also appears that virtually all past and present cultural moral standards (that advocate unselfish behaviors) are heuristics for increasing the benefits of cooperation in groups. However, the benefits of cooperation advocated by cultural moral standards can include emotional and material goods rewards, not just reproductive fitness benefits. </p>
<p>There is no ‘should’ in science. Science only tells us what ‘is’ and science appears to tell us that cultural moral standards and biologically based moral emotions are cultural and biological heuristics for exploiting the benefits of cooperation in groups. If people decide they ‘should’ use that information for their benefit, that is up to them.</p>
<p>I suggest the biggest help you will ever get in understand morality is to understand winning game theory strategies in environments where synergistic benefits of cooperation are available. These environments necessarily include virtually all environments inhabited by intelligent beings, human or otherwise. Intelligence is not the enemy of morality, it is what makes morality possible.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Evolutionary moral pragmatism by David Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.perplexicon.net/2011/03/evolutionary-moral-pragmatism/comment-page-1/#comment-5620</link>
		<dc:creator>David Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Mar 2011 18:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perplexicon.net/?p=459#comment-5620</guid>
		<description>To name two obvious ones: the instinct to survive, and the instinct to procreate. It may be the case that everything else follows from those two, but I suspect there are others, like the instinct to love. I don&#039;t know if there is such thing as a moral instinct per se. If there were, I suspect moral philosophy would be a lot simpler.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To name two obvious ones: the instinct to survive, and the instinct to procreate. It may be the case that everything else follows from those two, but I suspect there are others, like the instinct to love. I don&#8217;t know if there is such thing as a moral instinct per se. If there were, I suspect moral philosophy would be a lot simpler.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Evolutionary moral pragmatism by Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.perplexicon.net/2011/03/evolutionary-moral-pragmatism/comment-page-1/#comment-5617</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Mar 2011 16:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perplexicon.net/?p=459#comment-5617</guid>
		<description>What might these instincts be? Doesn&#039;t moral philosophy already exist to, ideally, sort the bad instincts from the good instincts and the realistic from the unattainable - as an expression of our moral instinct?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What might these instincts be? Doesn&#8217;t moral philosophy already exist to, ideally, sort the bad instincts from the good instincts and the realistic from the unattainable &#8211; as an expression of our moral instinct?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Evolution and morality, pt 3: rape by Evolutionary moral pragmatism &#124; Perplexicon</title>
		<link>http://www.perplexicon.net/2010/11/evolution-and-morality-pt-3-rape/comment-page-1/#comment-5448</link>
		<dc:creator>Evolutionary moral pragmatism &#124; Perplexicon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Mar 2011 21:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perplexicon.net/?p=432#comment-5448</guid>
		<description>[...] that act would be. This often requires considering the initial motivation behind the act. In a previous post, I discussed the question of rape, and concluded that, although varied, it is generally an [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that act would be. This often requires considering the initial motivation behind the act. In a previous post, I discussed the question of rape, and concluded that, although varied, it is generally an [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Is it even wrong, within Islam, to depict Mohammed? by Derek Bauer</title>
		<link>http://www.perplexicon.net/2010/04/is-it-even-wrong-within-islam-to-depict-mohammed/comment-page-1/#comment-5388</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Bauer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Mar 2011 00:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perplexicon.net/?p=347#comment-5388</guid>
		<description>A good summary. The three depictions of Mohammed are interesting. You should post some more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good summary. The three depictions of Mohammed are interesting. You should post some more.</p>
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